is a reference to Christ’s words, .”These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.". John 16:33. He was referring to himself as the embodiement of aware presence which is the source of a peace beyond words and time.
Mike, I struggle with this mediation even with your reference to Christ's quote - although I think I can fathom your/its meaning.
For me, "not knowing" and life/existence/reality being ultimate mystery lead me to a perspective and most importantly, feeling, that I am the world (not in and separate from the world, not outside of the world observing it, not its destroyer, but perhaps it is created in my consciousness and not separate from it).
For me, I am not a destroyer of time. From my perspective of Eternal Now, I am time. Indeed, there is no time - only Now. Only Here Now Being (as Joan would say). And, Here Now Being includes peace and tribulation and every other human feeling.
Who is this "I" who takes good cheer, destroys the world and time, is a nobody, and knows not?
From one perspective (the one that "I" like to take) is that there is no "I". Just mystery/not knowing*. Just This!
Thanks for sharing. Your words always challenge and inspire me.
Noel
*paradoxically, not knowing conceptually, but fully knowing as feeling - as always, language fails when we try to talk/write about This.
Hey Noel, good to hear from you & thanks for that post...yeah, I got the drift that 'The Destroyer', was a puzzle for many readers. I think a lot of folks couldn't get next to the the 'destroyer' as a term or maybe 'overcoming the world'? Dunno. I'm guessing that because I know it took me a long time, decades, really, to grok what ''not knowing' is and it wasn't until the discovery, one late night sitting at a retreat, that silence and not knowing are the same thing. Both terms refer to the end of our compulsive identification with thought and time. This is what Krishnamurti called 'dying to the known' and what Christ meant by 'overcoming the world.' When we know ourselves as awareness, as emptiness, there is no before or after. We are the destroyers of time. OK, I'm being called to Key Lime Pie. Gotta go. Cheers. M
Nothing should get in the way of Key Lime Pie! Enjoy!
We are on the same page even when it seems like we might not be. Guess that's why I'm drawn to and intrigued by your writing.
I've been there too: not knowing = silence = mystery = stillness = equanimity = Here Now (apologize for the equal signs; can't find the identify symbol in my character set)
I've also discovered that also: not knowing = sound = belief = action = pain = ecstasy = lost in thought
(Distinctions but not ultimately differences.)
Indeed, I am awareness, emptiness but also unenlightenment and fullness.
If the world, if time, is being destroyed. Then it must be I who is destroying. Because I and the world are not two. And, if the world is destroyed, it must also be created - and I must be creating it - for I and the world are not two.
The English language appears to me to be inherently dualistic. I feel moved to push back against - but, of course, there is no "I" and no separation between "I" and the words "I" uses.
As Rupert Spira says, 'Words always arrive too late for presence.' My teacher, Toni Packer, always cautioned us to be careful with words...how they are delivered and received. Still, there is an odd joy in the act of observing and articulating awareness and the impact of awareness in everyday life. For me, it has functioned as a deepening of inquiry.
Right now, wondering where did 'a destroyer of worlds' come from? And seeing in this moment of presence, that the emptiness of the imagined self, the world of thought/time, is seen for what it is, empty. The seeing of this feels like (and is) a collapse of a fabrication and the doorway to freedom. The 'destroyer of worlds', is the 'I' of awareness.
Our house is filled with family/grandkids taking refuge from the fires in LA. everyone calling for a hike so that's it for today's little reflection.
This poem
is a reference to Christ’s words, .”These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.". John 16:33. He was referring to himself as the embodiement of aware presence which is the source of a peace beyond words and time.
Mike, I struggle with this mediation even with your reference to Christ's quote - although I think I can fathom your/its meaning.
For me, "not knowing" and life/existence/reality being ultimate mystery lead me to a perspective and most importantly, feeling, that I am the world (not in and separate from the world, not outside of the world observing it, not its destroyer, but perhaps it is created in my consciousness and not separate from it).
For me, I am not a destroyer of time. From my perspective of Eternal Now, I am time. Indeed, there is no time - only Now. Only Here Now Being (as Joan would say). And, Here Now Being includes peace and tribulation and every other human feeling.
Who is this "I" who takes good cheer, destroys the world and time, is a nobody, and knows not?
From one perspective (the one that "I" like to take) is that there is no "I". Just mystery/not knowing*. Just This!
Thanks for sharing. Your words always challenge and inspire me.
Noel
*paradoxically, not knowing conceptually, but fully knowing as feeling - as always, language fails when we try to talk/write about This.
Hey Noel, good to hear from you & thanks for that post...yeah, I got the drift that 'The Destroyer', was a puzzle for many readers. I think a lot of folks couldn't get next to the the 'destroyer' as a term or maybe 'overcoming the world'? Dunno. I'm guessing that because I know it took me a long time, decades, really, to grok what ''not knowing' is and it wasn't until the discovery, one late night sitting at a retreat, that silence and not knowing are the same thing. Both terms refer to the end of our compulsive identification with thought and time. This is what Krishnamurti called 'dying to the known' and what Christ meant by 'overcoming the world.' When we know ourselves as awareness, as emptiness, there is no before or after. We are the destroyers of time. OK, I'm being called to Key Lime Pie. Gotta go. Cheers. M
Nothing should get in the way of Key Lime Pie! Enjoy!
We are on the same page even when it seems like we might not be. Guess that's why I'm drawn to and intrigued by your writing.
I've been there too: not knowing = silence = mystery = stillness = equanimity = Here Now (apologize for the equal signs; can't find the identify symbol in my character set)
I've also discovered that also: not knowing = sound = belief = action = pain = ecstasy = lost in thought
(Distinctions but not ultimately differences.)
Indeed, I am awareness, emptiness but also unenlightenment and fullness.
If the world, if time, is being destroyed. Then it must be I who is destroying. Because I and the world are not two. And, if the world is destroyed, it must also be created - and I must be creating it - for I and the world are not two.
The English language appears to me to be inherently dualistic. I feel moved to push back against - but, of course, there is no "I" and no separation between "I" and the words "I" uses.
Peace, brother.
As Rupert Spira says, 'Words always arrive too late for presence.' My teacher, Toni Packer, always cautioned us to be careful with words...how they are delivered and received. Still, there is an odd joy in the act of observing and articulating awareness and the impact of awareness in everyday life. For me, it has functioned as a deepening of inquiry.
Right now, wondering where did 'a destroyer of worlds' come from? And seeing in this moment of presence, that the emptiness of the imagined self, the world of thought/time, is seen for what it is, empty. The seeing of this feels like (and is) a collapse of a fabrication and the doorway to freedom. The 'destroyer of worlds', is the 'I' of awareness.
Our house is filled with family/grandkids taking refuge from the fires in LA. everyone calling for a hike so that's it for today's little reflection.
Cheers,
M